Nancy Gilgoff

We have lost several prominent teachers in the Ashtanga lineage over the last few years - one of the most iconic of these was Nancy Gilgoff. As one of the of the original group of three Westerners who learned from KP Jois in 1973, she offers a wealth of wisdom and significant insight into the history of the practice and its evolution.

I interviewed Nancy around 2001 and visited her several times in Maui. Here is a small excerpt (full interview below):

And here is a description of how she was taught in Mysore from her website:

Ashtanga Yoga As It Was (The Long and Short of It)
as told to and transcribed by Aharona Susan Shackman 

“The following is the way in which Guruji taught me, Nancy Gilgoff, the Primary and Intermediate series of Ashtanga Yoga during my first trip to Mysore, in 1973. David Williams and I stayed for four months that trip and had two classes per day (excluding Saturdays and Moon days).

In the first class, I was taught to do five Surya Namaskara A, plus the three finishing postures – Yoga Mudrasana, Padmasana, and Tolasana.  The second class, later that day, was five Surya Namaskara A and five Surya Namaskara B, plus the three finishing.  In the next class, Guruji told me to only do three each of Surya Namaskara A and B, and to keep it that way in my practice, and he then began adding on at least two postures per class, always with the three finishing at the end.

Guruji taught me the standing postures through Parsvottanasana, but with no Parivritta Trikonasana or Parivritta Parsvakonasana.  After Parsvottanasana he had me jump through to Dandasana.

In the seated postures, there were a minimal amount of vinyasas.  There were no vinyasas between sides.  Moreover, there were no vinyasas between variations – so all of Janu Sirsasana A, B, and C were done together (right side, left side of A, right, left of B, right, left of C), then a vinyasa before Marichyasana.  Then all of the Marichyasana variations, A, B, C, and D, were done together, without vinyasas between sides or variations; then there was a vinyasa before doing three repetitions of Navasana.  Baddha Konasana, Upavishta Konasana, and Supta Konasana were also grouped together without vinyasas between them.  Ubhaya Padangusthasana and Urdhva Mukha Paschimottanasana were also done together, with no vinyasa between – I was taught to simply change the hand position after Ubhaya Padangusthasana and go right into Urdhva Mukha Paschimottanasana.

In Kurmasana, Guruji had us bring our arms straight out from the shoulders (so the arms were in a straight line), with the knees close to the shoulders. There was no vinyasa to move into Supta Kurmasana; we would pull the feet back first, rounding the back, then clasp the hands together behind the back, and then cross the feet at the ankles in front of the head, with the head tucked in.

After Setu Bandhasana, Guruji added in Utthita Hasta Padangusthasana and Ardha Baddha Padmottanasana – but to be put in the series back in the standing sequence, after Parsvottanasana. (Utkatasana and Virabhadrasana were not in the series at this point, nor were Parivritta Trikonasana or Parivritta Parsvakonasana, all of which were added in later.)

Once Utthita Hasta Padangusthasana and Ardha Baddha Padmottanasana were taught and added into their place in the standing sequence, Intermediate was taught immediately - added on at the end of Primary, with Pashasana following Setu Bandhasana.  In fact, I had no idea that there were two separate series until the end of that first four-month trip, when we were leaving, at which point Guruji gave us a sheet of paper with a list of the postures, which were listed as Primary, Intermediate, Advanced A, and Advanced B.  At this point he told us to practice one series a day, and only once a day.  While we had been with him in Mysore, we had learned both Primary and Intermediate series in the first two months, and after that, he had had us practice both series, together, in entirety, twice a day.

Intermediate Series also contained fewer vinyasas back then. There were no vinyasas between sides (in Pashasana, Krounchasana, Bharadvajasana, Ardha Matsyendrasana, Eka Pada Sirsasana, Parighasana, and Gomukhasana).  From Shalabhasana through Parsva Dhanurasana, the asanas were done in a group, with a vinyasa only at the end. Ushtrasana through Kapotasana also were done all together, with a vinyasa only after Kapotasana. The same went for Eka Pada Sirsasana through Yoganidrasana – there were no vinyasas until the Chakrasana after Yoganidrasana.

The Intermediate series, as Guruji taught it to us during that first trip, included Vrishchikasana after Karandavasana. We were taught to hold Pincha Mayurasana for five breaths, bring the legs into lotus and lower down into Karandavasana, hold five breaths, inhale up, and then exhale right into Vrishchikasana for five breaths. The series ended with Gomukhasana. David asked for more, and so, per his request, Guruji added Supta Urdhva Pada Vajrasana as well as the seven headstands – Baddha Hasta Sirsasana A, B, C, and D were taught first, with Mukta Hasta Sirsasana A, B, and C following. Guruji said these were from Fourth Series.

Backbends from both the floor (Urdhva Dhanurasana) and standing (“drop-backs”) were taught after Intermediate Series, as was the rest of the finishing sequence (Paschimottanasana, Salamba Sarvangasana, Halasana, Karnapidasana, Urdhva Padmasana, Pindasana, Matsyasana, Uttana Padasana, and Sirsasana). Up until this point, we had just been doing Yoga Mudrasana, Padmasana, and Tolasana at the end of our practice.

Guruji taught us Pranayama after we had learned the entire Intermediate Series (at the end of our third month in Mysore, about a month after learning all of Intermediate).

I think it was when Guruji came to teach on Maui in 1980 (in Paia) that he added in so many vinyasas, while teaching led classes. When I asked him whether or not to do them in my own practice, as I had been practicing without – as he had taught me, he told me to add in the vinyasas to build my strength. By that trip in 1980 there was still no Parivritta Trikonasana, Parivritta Parsvakonasana, Utkatasana, or Virabhadrasana in the practice. (During another, later trip to the States, Guruji added in Parivritta Trikonasana and Parivritta Parsvakonasana. The next time he came back to Maui to teach, he saw us doing Parivritta Parsvakonasana, asked why we were doing it, and said that this was "crazy posture" and that we should take it out.  But the whole Maui crew loved it so much that he said we could leave it in.)
(Utkatasana and Virabhadrasana were perhaps added in at some point in the late 1980’s.)

Originally there were four series on the Ashtanga syllabus: Primary, Intermediate, Advanced A, and Advanced B.  A fifth series of sorts was the "Rishi series," which Guruji said could be done once a practitioner had "mastered" these four.”

You can see here below the original curriculum given to Nancy and David. There are various interesting things to note, apart from the re-ordering of 3/4th series into 3/4/5/6th series. For instance - as Nancy mentioned, no finishing postures taught until after second series. Posture 23 of second series is Urdva Dhanurasana - followed by several postures no longer part of the series. In spite of the changes in the sequences as he developed them over the years, the basic methodology was always the same. You can also see how important philosophy and theory study were as well.

Nancy Gilgoff Interview - Vermont 2001

Guy: When did you first meet Guruji?

Nancy: It was about 30 years ago.  I was traveling in India with David Williams. We went to an ashram in South India in Pondicherry and were looking for David’s friend Norman Allen. And Norman had gone and found Pattabhi Jois so we followed along the footsteps of Norman and went to Mysore. I was 24 years old and had no expectations at all about anything except world travel and went to Mysore, we were quickly brought into this man’s family. I became enthralled with the whole practice and with who he was.

Guy: What was your first impression of Guruji?

Nancy: Oh, I found Guruji to be open hearted, friendly, a man who I enjoyed just being around him. I trusted who he was and just enjoyed him as a person. I didn’t know anything about yoga then. So to me I surrendered to this friendly man who really seemed to want to do things with me. Guruji helped me in my practice and who I was later to become.

Guy: So you started studying with him right away when you first met him?

Nancy: Oh yes, we met him and then he told us to come back the next day and we came in the morning, and he started teaching us Surya Namaskara A.

Guy: I’ve often heard Guruji say that he teaches “real” or “original” Ashtanga yoga. What is your experience of Guruji as a teacher of “true” yoga?

Nancy: What is true yoga? [laughter] Ah, my experience of Pattabhi Jois as a yoga teacher is really my experience of it. When I met him I was quite ill, quite weak with migraine headaches and within four months of being with him I felt better. And I had no idea, I still can say, I had no idea what yoga was. I never expected to have any health benefits for me.

So in terms of the practice of yoga over the years of studying with him i have done some investigating and I would say his knowledge of asana is genuine. I consider him to be the best asana teacher in the world....for me. He’s certainly has taken me through my own fire and has shown me a great deal of compassion in teaching me. he helped my body to heal enough so that I could do the more advanced yoga practices.

When I first met him he told me my nervous system was very weak and that was why I had these headaches. He also told me right away where the headaches were coming from in my back, in my lower back, which I had no pain in, so I thought that was kind of interesting… I didn’t know if that was correct or not correct, I just thought it was interesting. And then as years went by I started to understand why he said that, and indeed I did have a sclerosis there but all the pain manifested in my upper body.

Guy: Why does Guruji emphasize, in particular, the third limb of Ashtanga yoga as a starting point?

Nancy: The practice, the fiery practice of Ashtanga that Pattabhi Jois teaches people is to heal the body. Again this is how I understand it through myself so that we can be strong enough to do the more advanced practices. Most of, most people in the world come into asana practice with a body that isn’t able to stand up to some of the intense pranayama and the fire that you need to do these advanced practices. I think that’s why he also doesn’t talk about the other practices. He’s told me that a person needs 10 years of this asana series before he really can talk to you about meditation or pranayama for some people, but definitely meditation.

Guy: Does he talk about the other limbs in his teaching or does it come at a later point?

Nancy: He doesn’t talk much about the others. For me he taught me pranayama within the third month I was with him.  Now he doesn’t teach that until much later.  He doesn’t really talk about those things too much with anybody. It’s left for self-inquiry, for people to go and find their own way with those. And I thought about it a lot over the years and came to see that his expertise is the asanas and he’s so wonderful at it. I think he was probably very wise to stay with what he does so well and let the rest of it unfold naturally for the people. He will speak on any subject but you have to ask him. Otherwise being around him and following the practise correctly, the other limbs will be realized.

Guy: Would you say that, Guruji teaches a standardized form of asana practice or is it an individualized practice that he teaches?

Nancy: I would say there is a standardized form but within that form there’s a lot of room for individual practice. So we have a set way of doing it, in a specific order of practice, the set number of breaths but within that there is certainly an individual practice - you see that with the way different people practice. Everyone has their style. I can see who taught who as soon as they start their practice. I know if Richard Freeman was their teacher, Tim Miller, Pattabhi Jois – who was their original teacher, you pick up nuances from your primary teacher.

Guy: Does Guruji teach different students in different ways? Does he teach people individually?

Nancy: A lot of his teaching seems to be based on their personalities. I’ve noticed people who are very strong he’ll teach them and be more concerned with their strength and helping them build their strength in a positive way. People who are very flexible he’ll work with them in a different way, so yeah, there is a difference. For people who, like me, came in and were extremely flexible but very weak he worked very much on the bandhas to build my strength, and build my energy internally.

Guy: We hear a lot about bandhas. As somebody who’s been exploring, experimenting with them over the years can you say something about your experience?

Nancy: Well, when I first began Ashtanga yoga, of course I’d never heard of the bandhas and when I met Pattabhi Jois his English was pretty negligible, he spoke hardly any words of English. And so it was basically hands-on and I couldn’t even jump back, I couldn’t lift my weight up at all and he would do that for me. And he also with his hands, used his hands to do mula bandha for me. I found it to be energizing and over the years I’ve investigated with as much understanding as I can. It keeps unfolding as being more and more interesting. It seems to move my energy up more in my body. But at the beginning I really didn’t even have an understanding at all of the energy in the body much less the bandhas themselves.

Guy: I mean he just says controlling them (bandhas) when he talks about it, you know, if he talks about it at all. Is there, are there any more subtle aspect to it as far as you are concerned?

Nancy: Ah, mula bandha – as one becomes more used to the feeling of it, the energy moves up into the body more. You just start to become more aware of it in a more subtle way as time passes. So it’s not such a large area of the body that one is taking in. You start to actually feel the perineum lifting and energy moving up in the body. At that point of movement it has to join with the other bandha – uddiyana bandha – or it’s not going to travel up in the body. And after, what? I’ve been practicing almost 30 years now and I’m just now, once again thinking that I’m understanding, a little bit more.

Guy: Guruji must have been one of the first teachers to take on female students. I don’t know if that’s really true but …

Nancy: There were not many female students even when I started with him. The men were downstairs and the women, the handful of women were upstairs. He had about 100 Indian students a day come in those days and it was David Williams, myself, and Norman. And then a woman named Sally Walker showed up. So he kept us in the room with the men. And, generally speaking we spoke to no one in the room because they were all speaking Kannada, his language. We were just practicing off to one side and listened to their laughter and their jokes. The women were around but not very visible.

Guy: Do you think there is an intrinsic difference between the way men and women are taught yoga or is it appropriate to teach men and women in a different way?

Nancy: I think they should be taught within the same framework but there should be a difference. In terms of the women, they should be allowed to be a woman in the practice. And this particular practice is very much a male practice as far as the general public has become aware of it. The men have predominated the field of it. As I’ve been traveling more, that’s one of the things that people say: They are so glad that a woman is coming out and speaking about it and showing it can be done in a soft way and in a feminine way, which I’ve just become comfortable with that in terms of myself so it’s kind of an interesting thing. Yeah, women should – there is a difference between men and women and so we should honor that within our practices as well.

Guy: There seem to be more women practitioners but more male teachers.

Nancy: Yes, I think so. I think that men are more motivated to be exposing themselves in that way.

Guy: I often find women’s adjustments more sensitive, in a sense there’s a softness whereas men can sometimes be just too forceful.

Nancy: Yeah, but there’s some strong women out there doing that too. [laughter] But that is a subject in itself, that you know how to give the adjustments themselves. It’s not about strength, it’s about, what are you trying to do with them. Are you trying to just take the external body and rotate it or put it in a place or are you trying to get the energy moving in the body? And that’s what I believe Guruji is doing.  that’s what I always felt with him, that he put my body in these postures and moved my energy. It wasn’t about whether my foot went behind my head or not, although that was the external form of it. It was getting the energy moving in all parts of the body.

Guy: So he’d see a blockage or a sense of being stuck in some way and then would help to break that?

Nancy: The energy does get blocked in the body and it can be from injuries and emotional things keep coming up. There is a way to unblock it is through heat and breath. And that’s what the Ashtanga series seems to do. It sets the body up to move the energy through it. If the bandhas are engaged it helps move it more smoothly. It moves more smoothly through the body.

Guy: So you were just talking about how the energy can be blocked in the body. It’s not only the body, it’s the mind also very often, isn’t it? Have you had, um I mean, I presume you’ve had experiences with Guruji taking you to where you think your limit is and beyond, you know, where you’ve experienced where your body somehow is blocked and he’s helped to move you through that. Can you describe a little bit maybe some incident of how he’s done that?

Nancy: When I first met him, the posture that was my hardest posture was Baddha Konasana. My knees were very high and I basically couldn’t bend over. He would take me down through the entire pose and my knees would go down on the floor, my chest would go down on the floor and my mind would snap. The body was fine but my mind definitely snapped. I’d get up, I’d be fine. I saw it was my mind holding me back in that posture. As the years progressed I saw my mind being the stuck place most of the time. If I was able to take my mind out of it, the energy could move through my body more easily. Ah, the other posture with him that I’ve had a lot of work and am still looking forward to working with him more is Ganda Bherundasana, where you’re on your throat and the feet come over. Generally when my feet touched my head I checked out, literally, and there I was. I even lost consciousness sometimes. When my mind was absent, my body did what he wanted to it to do because I wasn't resisting and reacting at that moment. The mind definitely plays a big role in what’s going on the in the body and you learn that through the practice.

Guy: Richard (Freeman) described him as being a bit of a trickster a bit like a Zen master, speaking in riddles, making you sort of confused in a certain sense, you think you are going backwards instead you are going forward or whatever. Have you had an experience with how he uses psychological methods to help you? Not just, “Yes you go.” Have you experienced that?

Nancy: I feel a lot of times Guruji will be teasing in a way to make us move forward so that it takes us out of our mindset and brings us into a place where it’s both fun and we’re not so aware of what we’re actually about to do. So, in a sense, the fear goes. One of his lines is, “Why you fear?” And as he says it you become aware of yes, it is about fear and why am I, what am I really afraid of? Am I afraid I’m going to fall on the floor? Am I afraid I’m going to break my shoulder? What am I afraid of? And as you examine it you realize that it’s up here in the mind, not in the body and you can let go of that. So I find him, yes in terms of his way of teaching, he’s a tease in that way. But again it’s very loving. I often tell people that he’s the most compassionate person I’ve ever met because he’ll take us into our fear and beyond it. When I’m teaching if I read fear in someone it’s very very hard to take them through it. So someone who can do that with you is the teacher for you because it’s about fear, moving through it on all levels.

Guy: He says something similar about pain, doesn’t he?

Nancy: The pain element, there’s good and there’s bad pain. In terms of good pain a lot of times you’ll feel pain in the way of you need to soften the muscle. A lot of times you’ll see that the mind is actually creating the pain. Again because pain is contraction when the mind shuts down so does the body. Once you can open the mind you can release a lot of the pain and contraction. He definitely takes you into that realm where you have to let go of the mind in order to do something. He generally is taking you so quickly into the pose. There’s a moment when the mind is not present and he will take you through that time. It’s like very quick you go right into it and that’s the trick of teaching asanas well. If you are doing hands-on adjustments it has to be fast before the mind can become involved in it.

Guy: Probably, first time Baddha Konasana, no problem.

Nancy: First time is much easier than the second because the mind is present it expects it. So each time, as the mind shuts down and the body shuts down with it, you have to trick a little bit differently and go in there and work just a little bit quicker or wait until the person’s mind steps out of the way again.

Guy: Guruji’s been your teacher for 30 years. How does he teach you differently today than the way he taught you as a twenty-four year old?

Nancy: I just saw Guruji in September so that’s a little less than a year and normally whenever I’ve worked with him he’s adjusted me almost in every posture. This time he was very busy – a lot of people in the room. Two times did he adjust me and they were the most direct, and I should say forceful in a way. But completely once again blew my mind at how amazing he was. He would come across the room and just get me right where I needed. I knew my energy in shoulder stand and in my left hip had always sagged. Now most people wouldn’t see that. And he came up second day and kneed right in there, very sharp. But my energy went right through my body and I was really struck with how precise he is – I think he’s become more precise and just goes right in. Now it’s maybe because he knows my body and he can just go for a direct blow almost. It wasn’t like an attack but it was just a real direct point of contact. Since that day i have never sagged again....at least not there. The other time he did it that day was in Yoga Nidrasana. I had woken up in the morning with my head stuck to the side and I couldn’t straighten out my neck. I thought, “Oh, practice today is going to be really really tough.”  And, he came up and took me and just went boom like this, pushed everything down and I was basically in shock, surprise. When he let go everything in my neck cracked. It was totally fixed, it was a perfect adjustment so I think he’s gotten even more definite in his adjustments, which is really amazing because he was always great but it’s like much more precise – this is it, boom!

Guy: That was really my second question. My first question is really about age and does he adjust someone who’s twenty-four differently than someone who’s fifty-four?

Nancy: Ok, as far as the difference in ages I don’t see there’s much change. He’s doesn’t read the body like anyone else I know. He reads the person. Someone who comes in who’s in their fifties who’s fit, he’s going to adjust them as a fit human being not as a fifty-year old fit human being. Age is really in the head; it’s all in the mind. And it manifests through the body. A thirty-year old can be walking around and really be in an eighty-year old body. And so that’s more how I think it’s read, it’s really the vitality of the person and, it’s very individual once again. So I’ve seen people who are in their sixties, I’ve seen him work with older people he still expects them to work their hardest and to do their utmost. It can be that they’re acting like a twenty-year old as far as their practice goes or they can be in an older mindset so they would act older.

Guy: Do you see Ashtanga Yoga as a spiritual practice?

Nancy: I think at the beginning of my practice I didn’t even have an understanding what spiritual was. As the years have evolved, yes I certainly would say that it’s a spiritual practice. It’s about transformation; it’s about changing the mindset. And that is what spirituality to me is about.

Guy: Maybe this is the same question: what is the purpose of daily practice and what are the non-physical aspects of the practice?

Nancy: A daily practice brings about a gauge in your life. For me, it’s been a way to know who I am in the moment. And it’s the only thing in my life that is something I do everyday; it’s the same practice. So no matter what else I’m doing, I’m traveling, if I eat differently, everyday the practice being the same repetitive practice gives me a way to judge myself in not a non-judgmental way but in a way of seeing, how am I doing? How am I holding up to the stresses of daily life? It’s also the only time for me that I can take my mind out of my daily life and become free in a spiritual sense to investigate myself, my true Self

Guy: Can you say what you think Guruji’s definition of yoga is? And how he imparts this knowledge to his students? Where does it come from and what is he teaching?

Nancy: 99% practice, 1% theory. And to me, this is beautiful. The more I have been on the road teaching I see more and more how beautiful that is. It’s individual. He’s teaching us to go within to look inside to investigate ourselves not to always look to the external or someone else for the answer. The answer is in all of us and he’s just given us a framework to work within that. And I find that to be the greatest gift of all of it.

Guy: Could you say something, a little bit about Guruji’s cultural origins and how that affects him as a person and how he’s moved from that by virtue, or has he moved from that, by virtue of his connection with Westerners? As you said, initially he had 100 Indian students and 3 Western students. Now he has maybe 3 Indian students and 100 Western students. It’s totally changed around. I’m sure his way of being has changed as a result of this cultural exchange that’s been happening with Westerners.

Nancy: In truth he hasn’t changed very much in terms of how he deals today with the Westerners and he how he dealt with Indian students when I first him. He had a lot of Indian students. He was always a very loving jovial kind of person, and very family oriented. He’s very much into his Hindu life. He is a spiritual man coming from within the framework of Hinduism but he doesn’t project that out to us too much. Those people who want to learn the cultural parts of his life have taken that on but it’s not something he presents or forces on anyone. I find with him being involved in the West a lot, has increased his understanding of the world. So he’s becoming more worldly in a way but he very much has stayed the same man, which he was. I also see the people he hangs out with (the Westerners) give him a kind of a limited perspective of what the West is. When we first met him and his family, I at the time wore no jewelry and I was the first woman he had met from the West. And so he and his family would say, “Oh, American women don’t wear any make-up, they don’t wear any jewelry.” And made these comments, and I said, you know, “This is not the normal. I’m a little bit off the beaten track here.” So they had that perspective. As they moved into the Western culture more, I’m sure that they’ve seen other aspects of the world but they very much, the whole family, very much have the same energy. It’s very interesting really to see that.

Guy: Do you think the system originates in the Yoga Korunta or with Rama Mohana Brahmachari, Krishnamacharya’s teacher or do you think Krishnamacharya developed it himself? Where do you think is the origin?

Nancy: As I was told originally, the system was found in Sanskrit by Krishnamacharya and Guruji and they translated it together. Guruji was in the Sanskrit College. I don’t know where they found the papers. Some people say they were found on leaves. now Guruji said he’s never seen that. I don’t know. It seems to be an old system. I feel that it was started a lot before Krishnamacharya and it was taught to young boys. My understanding was that it was taught to the young boys who were going to be the priests. And it was taught to them to purify their bodies and get their bodies strong so that they can go on to do more advanced yoga practices.

Guy: I’ve often heard yoga teachers talk about this as a system that Krishnamacharya taught to children. Do you have an idea why it seems so appropriate for Western people?

Nancy: I think the Western personality being competitive and very mindful - their minds are very strong as well as we have very strong bodies - the Indian peoples’ bodies were not as developed in terms of genetics and diet. It was also the reason why Guruji, probably, at the beginning told Norman (Allen) that Westerners couldn’t do this practice. He thought only Indians could do the practice partly because of the way the Western mind was always going into competition and trying to go after worldly pursuits. As the years progressed and the Westerners would come into it, the practice has certainly changed in the sense that are more strength aspects coming into it more and more.

Guy: Do you see Guruji as a healer? And what qualities in him make you see him in that light?

Nancy: Guruji is certainly a healer. He healed me. I can only speak from my experience about who he is. And in truth I don’t know that  I’d be alive today if it weren’t for him. And I’ve certainly have added quality to my life that I had not even expected when I went to him. I was losing energy very quickly. Sleeping twelve hours a day, had not much will to fight it, but I was a strong person in my being, that’s why I kept going. So in terms of who he is, yes I always have seen him as healing me. In terms of a quality, who he is that made that happen, I feel that it was from his yoga practice. That whatever drove him to Krishnamacharya’s door when he was the young boy is the reason he’s a healer today. And that’s what he loves about doing it. You see him expand with love every moment he’s teaching. He loves the practice. Same way that I feel when I’m teaching, I’m sharing this great gift that he gave to me and it’s a healing gift; healing on many levels but certainly the physical level has been extraordinary what’s happened to me.

Guy: That was really my next question then. How would you try to incorporate his teaching in the way you teach? And if there are one or two qualities you try to emulate when teaching, what would those be?

Nancy: When we first met Guruji and when we were getting ready to leave. (I was very new to the practice) Guruji told us, “Do your practice. Someday you teach it, all is coming.” And I believed him; I had no questions in my mind, I took that to heart. And I did my practice everyday. Eventually, I found myself without wanting it necessarily, I was teaching, I was sharing this with people.  I teach the way he taught me, which is what he tells me to do. Whenever I’ve asked him questions about teaching he says, “Teach it the way I taught you.” So I have a road map and I feel that I’m teaching really the way I experienced it. I don’t change things. I teach through his method of using hands-on.  because he was so hands-on with me I learned how to do hands-on adjustments. I’m mimicking him in a way but it translated through my body. I learned through his hands not through words.

I use my hands more than I use my words because that is how I was taught. And I now understand that people learn differently. Some people learn through talking; some people learn through seeing; and some people learn through touch. So I’ve expanded that and I’ve learned that really through my special education teaching, which I also have done. So each of us learns differently. I happen to be a person who learns through touch so Guruji taught me the method that worked best for me. David (Williams) was a person who learned through sight and through hearing and so he worked with him that way. Very rarely did he adjust David. David didn’t need it, the same kind of teaching, so I’m learning more and more to work with different kinds of people. As I read their energy more I work differently with them. Some people I can do more aggressive adjustments with and others if I went up and did an aggressive adjustment they would just freeze on me. And some people I can feather touch them just lightly touch them and their body will open up. Where, if someone comes and feather touches me nothing will probably happen. I need to have someone actually move my body. So its reading each individual and remembering as we go from person to person that it’s a different person instead of teaching everyone in the same way. In a large group we have to use more words but it’s really just to keep the form going. The fewer words, the better.

Guy: What was it like having Guruji as a guest in your home?

Nancy:  Guruji has blessed our houses with visits many many times. And the first time he came into our house was for four months with his son Manju in California. And it was pure delight. Always fun to have him there. Very easy. Basically, his son or his daughter takes care of him in terms of cooking and all of that, it is not our responsibility to do anything with him except to be with him and take him around. He loves to tour and be a tourist in new environments and it’s fun to go shopping with him where I don’t usually maybe like to go shopping. It’s just always delightful to see him and watch him discover things.

Guy: Guruji comes from a lineage of householders, which I think is surprising to our Western concept of  a yogi perhaps meditating in a cave or something. How important is family life in the system of yoga Guruji is teaching? And how does that affect the quality of this practice?

Nancy: Guruji’s family is extremely important to him. His family, his immediate family is the core of his life, I feel. He also has an extended family with all of us, that are his students. I think traditionally most human beings are going to be householders. There are very few people that are going to be renunciates and that’s as it should be. If we didn’t have householders we wouldn’t have the human race anymore. So there’s a way of being within the daily life of a householder that has integrity and compassion and love within it and I think that’s what he teaches by example because his family is a very loving family and they extend that out to other people and allow other people to come in and be very close to them.

Guy: Is that how he teaches the yamas and the niyamas?

Nancy: Possibly yes. Definitely, his teaching is very rarely through words. You are with him and you learn who he is and how he reacts and how he treats people by his doing it. He’s not really going to give you much on the verbal plane. We used to think it’s because he couldn’t speak English, but he speaks English very well although he still doesn’t converse. If you ask him a direct question it’s amazing how much knowledge he has on different subjects but someone has to ask him the question.

Guy: That is intentional, obviously, in some way.

Nancy: I don’t know, you’d have to ask him that. I don’t know, you know I was with him recently when a friend of mine who’s an incredible body worker asked him a question about the body and the two of them got into a discussion that left the rest of us in a complete wonderment: What were they talking about? But they had this exchange going that was so deep and so beautiful to watch them and they both were so excited and into it but most of us had not an idea of what they were talking about. It was much, way beyond our comprehension. And the same thing with his study of Sanskrit and the Sutras and all of this you know, he’s so schooled in them but very few people, really, who could talk to him about those things. They are very few people who understand it and that’s one of the things about the practice being everything. You don’t talk about things you don’t know about or with people who can’t understand it. You have to ask the right questions to receive those kinds of answers.

Guy: My one last question is about after Guruji passes on, what do you think would be his legacy? What would continue on after him?

Nancy: All of it, all of the people practicing will continue on. I think that all of the people in the past who’ve continued yoga practices are part of the same legacy. Within the framework of each practice there are different people that are going to continue the form. I once asked a teacher of mine, Baba Hare Das, “What do the students owe a teacher?” And the answer was, “To do your practice.” And I think that the legacy of yoga, the only reason that I get to practice it now is because many, many people went before myself, went before Pattabhi Jois, went before Krishnamacharya. And created this lineage that we can all use as our lineage and to evolve with it.